tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4142988674703954802.post7876345868331097924..comments2024-03-11T04:54:26.827-07:00Comments on THE HOCKEY SCHTICK: Paper: Cosmoclimatology is RealUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4142988674703954802.post-65310158295113078852010-09-14T14:18:20.972-07:002010-09-14T14:18:20.972-07:002. Lindzen & Choi measure RADIATION - no doubt...2. Lindzen & Choi measure RADIATION - no doubt clouds and 'greenhouse gases' radiate. Unfortunately, like most climate scientists they assume that means that any colder body which radiates can heat a warmer body, but this is clearly false unless you overturn the basic laws of 19th century thermodynamics. <br />3. Boy, you're quick. Also have a look at the presentation posted today here, which finds strong observational evidence for the cosmic ray theory:<br /><br />http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2010/09/scientist-there-is-no-observational.htmlMShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06714540297202434542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4142988674703954802.post-22237457518877099242010-09-14T14:00:06.245-07:002010-09-14T14:00:06.245-07:001) I know. It's discussed in the Calogovic pap...1) I know. It's discussed in the Calogovic paper<br />2) Well the Choi Paper says not and he shows it with observations. <br />3) I read them already.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4142988674703954802.post-25084083872871710082010-09-14T12:45:37.196-07:002010-09-14T12:45:37.196-07:00Anonymous,
1. Fine, and here is one of several pap...Anonymous,<br />1. Fine, and here is one of several papers that does find positive correlation for low clouds:<br />http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/svensmark-forebush.pdf<br /><br />2. Wrong... more opacity means more of the 45% IR in incoming solar radiation is absorbed BEFORE heating the Earth's surface and 1/2 re-radiated back into space BEFORE heating the Earth. The correlation is thus: more cosmic rays, more cooling<br /><br />3. The 'radiative behavior' of different cloud types is irrelevant because all types of clouds radiate at a temperature lower than the Earth. Per the Clausius formulation of the second law of thermodynamics, a colder body cannot heat a warmer body. You don't have to take me "serious," just Google 'Clausius formulation 2nd law' for thousands of references. Then read the G&T paper, Thieme paper, Chilingar paper, etc. and many other references on this blog e.g.<br /><br />http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2010/07/why-greenhouse-theory-violates-2nd-law.html<br /><br />and at Claes Johnson's blog (author of several textbooks on thermodynamics)<br /><br />http://claesjohnson.blogspot.com/MShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06714540297202434542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4142988674703954802.post-10528587991674865872010-09-14T12:23:37.140-07:002010-09-14T12:23:37.140-07:00"Furthermore, high altitude clouds at -18C or..."Furthermore, high altitude clouds at -18C or less are not capable of heating the earth at 15C because "a cold body cannot heat a warm body" from the 2nd law of thermodynamics. "<br /><br />Sorry. I took you serious for a moment. Havent seen this sentence.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4142988674703954802.post-68540083802153784692010-09-14T12:21:50.841-07:002010-09-14T12:21:50.841-07:001) Exactly. And this study looked in lower cloud l...1) Exactly. And this study looked in lower cloud layers.<br />http://www.wrq.eawag.ch/organisation/abteilungen/surf/publikationen/2010_calogovic.pdf<br /><br />2) Correct. More opacity means mor cirrus means more warming. Correlation thus is: More cosmic rays, more warming.<br /><br />3) There is plein evidence for the radiative behaviour of different cloud types. Check for yourself:<br />http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/Clouds/clouds3.php<br />eg<br />"Effective CRE (i.e., CRE cloud amount) is<br />dominated by Ci2 and Ci3 (i.e., 1 t < 9) as compared<br />to the other categories. DA[Ci2] and DA[Ci3] are also very<br />high in the Tropics, thereby resulting in large DF[Ci2] and<br />DF[Ci3]. On the other hand, the impact on SW is larger<br />than that on LW for middle and low clouds. Since the results<br />in this study are contaminated by the effects of middle and<br />low clouds, the actual cirrus net warming effect should be<br />even larger than what is presented."<br /><br />http://www.mit.edu/~ysc/index.files/Choi2006GRL.pdfAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4142988674703954802.post-39451822396250873542010-09-14T09:30:34.596-07:002010-09-14T09:30:34.596-07:00Anonymous,
1. The abstract says they only looked a...Anonymous,<br />1. The abstract says they only looked at mid and high altitude clouds, so nothing can be concluded from this study about low altitude clouds & GCRs<br />2. The abstract says "a 15% increase in CNM would result in ... an increase in cloud opacity," so unless the abstract is worded incorrectly, there is no problem with the sign of the correlation. This would also be consistent with earlier statement of a "positive cloud-CNM correlation."<br />3. The claim that high altitude clouds warm the planet because they "absorb more IR and reflect less sunlight" seems tenuous at best. Incoming solar energy is 45% IR, so these clouds absorb significant amounts of solar energy BEFORE it reaches the earth, thus acting as a sunshade. Furthermore, high altitude clouds at -18C or less are not capable of heating the earth at 15C because "a cold body cannot heat a warm body" from the 2nd law of thermodynamics.MShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06714540297202434542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4142988674703954802.post-90211837339223961282010-09-14T00:55:36.338-07:002010-09-14T00:55:36.338-07:00You might consider the height of the clouds, the s...You might consider the height of the clouds, the sign of the correlation and what follows for the energy balance of the planet.<br />Actually if these results are confirmed a weaker sun heats the planet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4142988674703954802.post-56833988026140049522010-08-02T22:00:59.340-07:002010-08-02T22:00:59.340-07:00Everyone, who is interested in the role of the sun...Everyone, who is interested in the role of the sun as a major player in our climate should take a serious look at this excellent lecture by the CERN scientist Jasper Kirby:<br /><br />http://indico.cern.ch/conferenceDisplay.py?confId=52576Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4142988674703954802.post-15752085767848017122010-08-02T20:38:14.671-07:002010-08-02T20:38:14.671-07:00Hot diggety dawg! Climate SCIENCE for a change.Hot diggety dawg! Climate SCIENCE for a change.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com