tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4142988674703954802.post7911624923790458855..comments2024-03-11T04:54:26.827-07:00Comments on THE HOCKEY SCHTICK: New paper finds solar UV is correlated to global mean temperatureUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4142988674703954802.post-75131658111362057312014-04-24T09:20:35.407-07:002014-04-24T09:20:35.407-07:00Comment left at WUWT:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/...Comment left at WUWT:<br /><br />http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/04/22/new-paper-finds-solar-uv-b-output-is-correlated-to-global-mean-temperature/#comment-1620529<br /><br />The post has been updated with this comment:<br /><br />http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2014/04/new-paper-finds-solar-uv-is-correlated.html?showComment=1398355699772#c291248561718783507<br /><br />Based upon the comment by Nick Stokes above regarding this paper:<br /><br />"The words you have highlighted from the abstract (in your title),<br />“UV-B surfaces were correlated with global mean temperature and annual mean radiation data” have two possible meanings. We’re used to thinking of time correlation of spatial means. But it can equally mean spatial correlation of time means. Since they have cited a dataset of spatially distributed time mean temperatures, and used LISA to get the spatial correlations, it’s clear that they are using the second interpretation."<br /><br />http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/04/22/new-paper-finds-solar-uv-b-output-is-correlated-to-global-mean-temperature/#comment-1619347<br /><br />Nick was able to determine this from a read of the full paper, therefore, I requested confirmation and a copy of the full paper from the authors, received this morning. The authors confirm the paper shows a correlation between spatial UV-B and spatial mean annual temperature and that they did not test for temporal correlations. Thus, the abstract was incorrectly/misleadingly worded as finding <br /><br />"UV-B surfaces were correlated with global mean temperature" <br /><br />when it would have been more correct to state<br /><br />"UV-B surfaces were correlated with spatial mean temperature" <br /><br />as use of the term "global" to describe a spatial mean temperature is inappropriate. <br /><br />Thus, based upon the now-clarified, albeit inappropriate, wording of the abstract, the claim of this post that UV-B has been demonstrated to be correlated to "global mean temperature" is withdrawn.<br /><br />Nonetheless, there may or may not be a correlation between the two and it should be investigated for some of the following reasons:<br /><br />1. Solar UV varies up to 100% over solar cycles<br /><br />2. Solar UV greatly affects <br />a) ozone production, which can also act as one of many solar amplification mechanisms<br />b) temperatures of the stratosphere, mesosphere, and thermosphere<br />c) photosynthesis and other large effects on the biosphere as shown by this paper<br /><br />3. UV is the most energetic portion of the solar spectrum, and penetrates the deepest into the ocean in comparison to the rest of the solar spectrum. Therefore, it has the greatest effect upon ocean heating compared to any other portion of the solar spectrum, and likely is more efficient in heating land as well.<br /><br />4. For these reasons, and others, the various portions of the solar spectrum can have vastly differing effects on climate and change far more than the TSI. It is woefully inadequate to dismiss this by only incorporating the tiny 0.1% changes in TSI in climate models. MShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06714540297202434542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4142988674703954802.post-2912485617187835072014-04-24T09:08:19.772-07:002014-04-24T09:08:19.772-07:00Based upon a comment by Nick Stokes at WUWT regard...Based upon a comment by Nick Stokes at WUWT regarding this paper:<br /><br />The words you have highlighted from the abstract (in your title),<br />“UV-B surfaces were correlated with global mean temperature and annual mean radiation data” have two possible meanings. We’re used to thinking of time correlation of spatial means. But it can equally mean spatial correlation of time means. Since they have cited a dataset of spatially distributed time mean temperatures, and used LISA to get the spatial correlations, it’s clear that they are using the second interpretation."<br /><br />http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/04/22/new-paper-finds-solar-uv-b-output-is-correlated-to-global-mean-temperature/#comment-1619347<br /><br />Nick was able to determine this from a read of the full paper, therefore, I requested confirmation and a copy of the full paper from the authors, received this morning. The authors confirm the paper shows a correlation between spatial UV-B and spatial mean annual temperature and that they did not test for temporal correlations. Thus, the abstract was incorrectly/misleadingly worded as finding <br /><br />"UV-B surfaces were correlated with global mean temperature" <br /><br />when it would have been more correct to state<br /><br />"UV-B surfaces were correlated with spatial mean temperature" <br /><br />as use of the term "global" to describe a spatial mean temperature is inappropriate. <br /><br />Thus, based upon the now-clarified although inappropriate wording of the abstract, the claim of this post that UV-B is correlated to "global mean temperature" is withdrawn.<br /><br />Nonetheless, there could still be a correlation between the two and should be investigated for some of the following reasons:<br /><br />1. Solar UV varies up to 100% over solar cycles<br />2. Solar UV greatly affects <br />a) ozone production, which can also act as one of many solar amplification mechanisms<br />b) temperatures of the stratosphere, mesosphere, thermosphere<br />c) photosynthesis and other large effects on the biosphere as shown by this paper<br />d) UV is the most energetic portion of the solar spectrum, and penetrates the deepest into the ocean compared to the rest of the solar spectrum. Therefore, it has the greatest effect upon ocean heating compared to any other portion of the solar spectrum, and likely is more efficient in heating land as well.<br /><br />These are just a few of the reasons why the effects of the Sun on climate are at the very earliest stages of understanding and unfortunately continue to be ignored by climate modelers. MShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06714540297202434542noreply@blogger.com