tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4142988674703954802.post3850692159672814399..comments2024-03-11T04:54:26.827-07:00Comments on THE HOCKEY SCHTICK: Nature article: $250 million should be spent on climate models able to skillfully simulate clouds & convectionUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4142988674703954802.post-43716283169117459542014-11-20T13:14:41.151-08:002014-11-20T13:14:41.151-08:00I am gratified that you can see the point since I&...I am gratified that you can see the point since I've had some pretty torrid responses to it on other sceptic sites.<br /><br />The lack of understanding of adiabatic ascent and descent even amongst 'experts' is astonishing.<br /><br />No one seems to understand that work done against or with gravity by moving mass up or down cannot by definition of the term adiabatic also involve work being done with surrounding molecules at the same time.<br /><br />Once work is done with gravity on uplift it is in the form of gravitational potential energy which is no longer able to do any work on the surroundings and which does not radiate. Furthermore it returns as kinetic energy on the subsequent descent.<br /><br />Some think it is 'magic' and a breach of the laws of thermodynamics but it is they who lack the relevant knowledge and understanding of what was once basic physics of gases moving within a gravitational field.<br />Stephen Wildenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4142988674703954802.post-38085353910797089312014-11-20T12:40:08.033-08:002014-11-20T12:40:08.033-08:00Models as opposed to complete climate simulations ...Models as opposed to complete climate simulations have been generated that do adequately predict today's global temperatures. These models have nothing to do with CO2 and they do not require some special supper computer.Will Haashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03168168703004645972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4142988674703954802.post-79836699585442732332014-11-20T10:29:23.837-08:002014-11-20T10:29:23.837-08:00Re the atmospheric window above, check out this ci...Re the atmospheric window above, check out this circuit analogy that finds if the atmospheric window is between 0-50 Wm-2 [currently shown by Kiehl-Trenberth to be 40Wm-2], addition of GHEs will cool the surface<br /><br />http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2014/11/modeling-of-earths-planetary-heat.htmlMShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06714540297202434542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4142988674703954802.post-7409368468472130692014-11-20T10:24:53.572-08:002014-11-20T10:24:53.572-08:00I haven't, but please read above why faster co...I haven't, but please read above why faster computers are unlikely to solve chaos theoryMShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06714540297202434542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4142988674703954802.post-51053649150197370002014-11-20T10:02:46.180-08:002014-11-20T10:02:46.180-08:00Curious if you've heard of the International C...Curious if you've heard of the International Centre for Earth Simulation in Geneva... they are working to make this vision a reality.<br /><br />;-)<br /><br />http://www.icesfoundation.orgJoe Brewerhttp://www.changestrategistforhumanity.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4142988674703954802.post-55532665410522978892014-11-20T09:21:58.838-08:002014-11-20T09:21:58.838-08:00"The energy budget diagrams I have seen all o..."The energy budget diagrams I have seen all omit that aspect and replace it with net warming from DWIR to make the budget balance."<br /><br />Yes, you are right, and that's how the current models falsely "parameterize" convection, and no doubt this same GIGO error will be repeated with their $250M supercomputersMShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06714540297202434542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4142988674703954802.post-29956698700418861022014-11-20T09:18:38.007-08:002014-11-20T09:18:38.007-08:00Thank you Gail, I've been meaning to take the ...Thank you Gail, I've been meaning to take the time to review Happer's presentation<br /><br />It's a shame what is going on over there, I have otherwise been a big supporter of Steve/Tony, but hate to see claims that anyone who doesn't fully agree with an argument is therefore a "dummy" or "idiot"MShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06714540297202434542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4142988674703954802.post-67087496714328349922014-11-20T09:13:48.109-08:002014-11-20T09:13:48.109-08:00Hockey Schtick,
Thanks for the comment over at St...Hockey Schtick,<br /><br />Thanks for the comment over at Steve's Real Science. He seems to have the 'Greenhouse effect' turned upside down and backwards and is digging his heels in. <br /><br />It is very frustrating since he doesn't even seem to know what the 'atmospheric window' is even though I just posted an image and also the link to Dr Happer's slides.<br /><br />I wouldn't care so much except for the threatened ban of those who don't agree with his version of the 'greenhouse effect' which closes off any further attempts to correct the problem or at least let others know the Science is not settled.<br /><br />Dr. Happer just trashed the equations for the climate models BTW.<br /><br />David Burton put up on his website an audio and slides of Dr Happer's presentation: <a href="http://www.sealevel.info/Happer_UNC_2014-09-08/" rel="nofollow">link</a><br /><br />SLIDES: <a href="http://www.sealevel.info/Happer_UNC_2014-09-08/UNC-9-8-2014.pptx" rel="nofollow">link</a> <br />Slides 22, 42, 43 and 44 are the critical slides. <br /><br />John Locke Foundation also has a video someone said it was at:<br />http://jlf.streamhammer.com/speakers/williamhapper090814.mp4<br /><br />(My computer is too old to support video)<br />Gail Combs<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4142988674703954802.post-3333031137251792562014-11-20T00:17:38.924-08:002014-11-20T00:17:38.924-08:00If they ever bother to model convection properly t...If they ever bother to model convection properly they will have to include the thermal effect of adiabatic warming on descent which is what really determines surface temperature.<br /><br />The energy budget diagrams I have seen all omit that aspect and replace it with net warming from DWIR to make the budget balance.<br /><br />In fact, changes in the amount of energy being returned to the surface in adiabatic descent always cancel out changes in the radiative capabilities of an atmosphere.Stephen Wildenoreply@blogger.com