Prior work has confirmed the gravito-thermal greenhouse effect on
Referring to fig. 1 of the paper, we find at 0.1 bar pressure on Jupiter, the corresponding temperature is~112°K, and at 11 bars pressure corresponds to 400°K or 260°F:
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| Fig 1 from the paper. The dotted line is the atmospheric temperature vs. pressure curve on Jupiter. At 11 bars pressure, the temperature is 400°K or 127°C or 260°F. |
T/To = (P/Po)^0.286 ~= 400°K/112°K = (11 bar/0.1 bar)^.286
and once again demonstrates that the catastrophic anthropogenic global warming (CAGW) theory is a myth, that atmospheric temperatures are controlled by mass/gravity/pressure and are independent of greenhouse gas concentrations on any of these 9 planets with atmospheres, including Earth. Adding additional CO2 plant food to the atmosphere will undoubtedly green the Earth, but Earth's climate sensitivity to CO2 is effectively zero.
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Fig. 7.
a) Dry adiabatic response of the air/surface temperature ratio to pressure changes in the free atmosphere according to Poisson’s formula. The reference pressure is arbitrarily assumed to be po=100 kPa;b) The SB radiation law expressed as a response of a blackbody temperature ratio to variation in photon pressure (see text for details).
Figure 5. Atmospheric near-surface Thermal Enhancement (NTE) as a function of mean total surface pressure (Ps) for 8 celestial bodies listed in Table 1. See Eq. (7) for the exact mathematical formula. Source: Nikolov & Zeller
Figure 6. Temperature/potential temperature ratio as a function of atmospheric pressure according to the Poisson formula based on the Gas Law (Po = 100 kPa.). Note the striking similarity in shape with the curve in Fig. 5.
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NASA Jupiter Fact Sheet
Jupiter/Earth Comparison
Bulk parameters
Jupiter Earth Ratio (Jupiter/Earth)
Mass (1024 kg) 1,898.19 5.9724 317.83
Volume (1010 km3) 143,128 108.321 1321.33
Radius (1 bar level) (km)
Equatorial 71,492 6,378.1 11.209
Polar 66,854 6,356.8 10.517
Volumetric mean radius (km) 69,911 6,371.0 10.973
Ellipticity 0.06487 0.00335 19.36
Mean density (kg/m3) 1,326 5,514 0.240
Gravity (eq., 1 bar) (m/s2) 24.79 9.80 2.530
Acceleration (eq., 1 bar) (m/s2) 23.12 9.78 2.364
Escape velocity (km/s) 59.5 11.19 5.32
GM (x 106 km3/s2) 126.687 0.39860 317.83
Bond albedo 0.343 0.306 1.12
Visual geometric albedo 0.52 0.367 1.42
Visual magnitude V(1,0) -9.40 -3.86 -
Solar irradiance (W/m2) 50.26 1361.0 0.037
Black-body temperature (K) 109.9 254.0 0.433
Moment of inertia (I/MR2) 0.254 0.3308 0.768
J2 (x 10-6) 14,736 1082.63 13.611
Number of natural satellites 67 1
Planetary ring system Yes No
Orbital parameters
Jupiter Earth Ratio (Jupiter/Earth) Semimajor axis (106 km) 778.57 149.60 5.204 Sidereal orbit period (days) 4,332.589 365.256 11.862 Tropical orbit period (days) 4,330.595 365.242 11.857 Perihelion (106 km) 740.52 147.09 5.034 Aphelion (106 km) 816.62 152.10 5.369 Synodic period (days) 398.88 - - Mean orbital velocity (km/s) 13.06 29.78 0.439 Max. orbital velocity (km/s) 13.72 30.29 0.453 Min. orbital velocity (km/s) 12.44 29.29 0.425 Orbit inclination (deg) 1.304 0.000 - Orbit eccentricity 0.0489 0.0167 2.928 Sidereal rotation period (hours) 9.9250* 23.9345 0.415 Length of day (hrs) 9.9259 24.0000 0.414 Obliquity to orbit (deg) 3.13 23.44 0.134 Inclination of equator (deg) 3.13 23.44 0.134* System III (1965.0) coordinates
Jovian Atmosphere
Surface Pressure: >>1000 bars
Temperature at 1 bar: 165 K (-108 C)
Temperature at 0.1 bar: 112 K (-161 C)
Density at 1 bar: 0.16 kg/m3
Wind speeds
Up to 150 m/s<30 40="" degrees="" latitude="" m="" s="" to="" up="">
Scale height: 27 km
Mean molecular weight: 2.22
Atmospheric composition (by volume, uncertainty in parentheses)
Major: Molecular hydrogen (H2) - 89.8% (2.0%); Helium (He) - 10.2% (2.0%)
Minor (ppm): Methane (CH4) - 3000 (1000); Ammonia (NH3) - 260 (40);
Hydrogen Deuteride (HD) - 28 (10); Ethane (C2H6) - 5.8 (1.5);
Water (H2O) - 4 (varies with pressure)
Aerosols: Ammonia ice, water ice, ammonia hydrosulfide
The temperature/pressure profile is accounted for by the gravito thermal effect but not the fact that Jupiter radiates more to space than is received from the sun.
ReplyDeleteThat phenomenon would be accounted for by friction from convective overturning within the more solid centre and/or by radioactive decay within that centre.
Given that there are lots of radiative constituents within the atmosphere of Jupiter and other planets we need to provide a mechanism whereby radiative capability within an atmosphere is neutralised and I suggest that this is the answer:
http://www.newclimatemodel.com/neutralising-radiative-imbalances-within-convecting-atmospheres/
Hi Stephen,
ReplyDeleteIf you agree that the T/P curve is explained by mass/gravity/pressure, and given that thermal radiation is a function of T^4 via the SB Law, I don't understand why you need anything else to explain how a planet can radiate far more radiation than it receives from the Sun.
Likewise, Uranus, which receives only 3.71 W/m2 from the Sun, generates top of the atmosphere storms hot enough to melt steel:
http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2014/11/how-can-uranus-have-storms-hot-enough.html
which I again contend is only explainable on the basis of the gravito-thermal GHE.
Hi MS,
ReplyDeleteI have a problem with the idea that the gravito-thermal effect actually creates new energy on its own. That is implicit if more goes out than comes in yet the temperature stays stable.
I can see that the gravito-thermal effect constantly recycles a fixed amount of existing energy which has become locked into continuing convective overturning of the atmospheric gases but not that it can add energy to that received from other sources.
The additional heat observed can be adequately accounted for by friction from convective overturning within convecting semi solids or convection within solids under enough pressure (such as the Earth's mantle) and/or radiative decay within the central mass.
The gravito-thermal GHE doesn't generate energy, it re-distributes available energy along the lapse rate. Thats why for example on Earth the equilibrium temperature with the Sun of 255K occurs at the atmospheric center of mass at 0.5 atmospheres, and there is a "negative -35K greenhouse effect" from 0.5 atmospheres to the 0.1 atm top of the atmosphere, and a positive +33K greenhouse effect from 0.5 atmospheres to the 1 atmosphere surface. No energy is created from this effect; the available energy is re-distributed along the pressure/density curves.
DeleteThen how can it be involved in the planet radiating more energy to space than it receives from the sun ?
ReplyDeleteThe additional energy must be coming from somewhere and you aaccept that the gravito-thermal GHE doesn't generate energy.
Stephen, clearly you're right. This thesis does not explain the extra energy. One of my high school friend's older brother won a science fair for measuring this extra energy from Jupiter. That was in the mid-60s. At the time, the assumption was that the extra energy was from the original heat of compression still working its way to the surface of that deep atmosphere, after 4.5 billion years. At the time, it made sense to me. But now, I'd want to know how long it takes for heat of compression to dissipate from such a thick atmosphere.
DeleteI do accept that the gravito-thermal GHE does not create energy, and merely redistributes the available energy according to pressures.
ReplyDeleteGas planets with thick cloud layers such as Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune have been postulated to have an internal energy source, although this has not been confirmed by observations and the cause is apparently still up to intense debate. A mission set to arrive at Jupiter on 7/4/16 will hopefully answer the mystery of Jupiter's postulated internal energy source.
On Venus, we know from the NASA Fact Sheet:
ReplyDeleteVenus Atmosphere
Surface pressure: 92 bars = 92000 mbar
Surface density: ~65. kg/m3 = 65000 g/m3
Scale height: 15.9 km
Total mass of atmosphere: ~4.8 x 1020 kg
Average temperature: 737 K (464 C)
Diurnal temperature range: ~0
Wind speeds: 0.3 to 1.0 m/s (surface)
Mean molecular weight: 43.45
Atmospheric composition (near surface, by volume):
Major: 96.5% Carbon Dioxide (CO2), 3.5% Nitrogen (N2)
Minor (ppm): Sulfur Dioxide (SO2) - 150; Argon (Ar) - 70; Water (H2O) - 20;
Carbon Monoxide (CO) - 17; Helium (He) - 12; Neon (Ne) - 7
We can easily calculate the gravito-thermal greenhouse effect surface temperature of Venus using the ideal gas law
T = PV/nR = 92000/(65000/43.45*0.083144621) = 739K
which is within 2K (or 2C) of NASA observations of 737K as noted above, leaving essentially no room for any sort of Arrhenius radiative greenhouse effect on Venus.
...and no room for any internal energy source
DeleteAgreed as regards Venus but Venus only gives out what it receives.
DeleteWe will have to wait and see as regards Jupiter, Uranus and any other planet that gives out more than it receives.
Very interesting paper which effectively demonstrates the reasoning behind why gravito thermal effect is actually due to pressure. Thanks for sharing.
ReplyDeleteJust stumbled across this article, although two years old its a very interesting paper. Thanks for sharing!
ReplyDelete